This may be a Rick Scarborough First

I do not think I have ever seen an email or Rick Scarborough post which does NOT bash gay and lesbians...all he wants here is your money and a prayer. Progress?
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Monday, October 30, 2006
Message from Rick Scarborough:
When I hear a cry for help I have to respond.

Vision America has been working hard in Missouri for the past few
months and we have been seeing incredible response from ministers
across the state. We are seeing the pulpits of this state ringing
forth with a declaration of truth; motivating Christians to get
involved and to make a difference.

In the midst of our work South Dakota cried out for help!

And we answered!

Missouri is in the national spotlight as a deceptive cloning amendment
is being foisted on its citizens by special interest groups with deep
pockets, and the key to protecting unborn children from exploitation
is Christians.

South Dakota is also fighting for the protection of the unborn and
attempting to stop the genocide that takes place under legalized
abortion.

When I return to South Dakota this weekend to speak alongside Alan
Keyes and Dr. James Dobson, this will be the third trip I will have
made into the state.

So now I am asking you for help, above and beyond your current
support, and pray that you will respond.

Click here to help now!

http://www.visionamerica.us/site/R?i=wr_5_56kZkFG070Xks3BdQ..

We did not budget for our work in South Dakota and we need your help
in meeting the needs that have arisen.

I know if you could, you would be on the ground with me in Missouri
and South Dakota. Vision America allows you to be there! Vision
America allows you to make a difference in the key battles our nation
is facing!

As a partner, as a friend, I need your help.

Your donation of any amount will help. No matter how much you can
give, every donation makes a difference. And every donation goes
directly to saving the life of an unborn child and allows us to
prepare for the next battle our nation will face.

Additionally, thanks to a matching grant, your donation is doubled
immediately. Your donation will make a huge impact. Please take action
today by clicking here.

http://www.visionamerica.us/site/R?i=x1DldPu93kVHumrjwL9pGA..

Thank you for your support, especially to those who give every month.
Maybe the next battle is in your state, and the next cry for help will
come from you. Vision America needs your support so that we can
answer.

http://www.visionamerica.us/site/R?i=XYjsburXRc2_bMGFs6o1rQ..

Thank you,

Rick Scarborough

Knock Knock Ken Mehlman

All the People Rick Scarborough

A real Christian church

Not just you and your narrow minded off the chart fundamentalist nutwings.

Scarborough on Stem Cells

The only thing devilish is not supporting research.

"And Rick Scarborough, a Texas minister who founded the conservative
organization Vision America, called early stem-cell research "a devilish
science" and urged church members to get involved in the campaign to block the
initiative."

Full Article > Catholic Media Report

RNC's Ken Mehlman -- Gay?

So is Ken Mehlman the next Republican closet case to be outed? Considering his praise for Delay, I say if you have information....now is the time to show the lunacy and hypocracy of the Republican Party.

Check out the video and BlogActive's questions to Mr. Republican.




From a Chris Matthews interview with Tom Delay
MATTHEWS: Ken Mehlman, the chairman of your party, said something pretty nice about you
tonight and I think you’d have to respond to it:
“The essence of leadership is not just coming up with good ideas, it’s making those good ideas happen. For the past two decades, Tom DeLay has tirelessly and successfully transformed very important ideas into very successful laws. Conservative legislation from welfare reform and a balanced budget, to tax relief, education reform and a ban on partial-birth abortion all bear the signature of Tom DeLay.”
DELAY: Well, that’s very nice to say, but there were a lot of other Republicans that did that too.

Fundies Oppose Public Education

Personally I feeel we should start screaming for a ban on homeschooling - Religious nuts want to ruin education in America. What values!

More Southern Baptist Leaders Voice Support for Public School Exodus

A number of Southern Baptist leaders have voiced support for the Shortt-Moran
measure. Dr. Rick Scarborough, Founder of Vision America and a leading SBC
grassroots activist is among those who strongly endorse the resolution and see
it as urgently needed, as is evangelist and Bible teacher Dr. Voddie
Baucham.
According to a Christian Newswire report, Scarborough contends that
public schools have long ceased to serve as a positive reinforcer of traditional
values and today "are not even neutral on many crucial issues which are
important to people of faith." He says public education has unfortunately been
"hijacked by people who reject Biblical teachings on man's origin, the proper
role of sex, and the acceptability of homosexuality."
The Vision America
spokesman feels strongly that messengers at the 2006 Annual Meeting should get
the chance to weigh in on the issue of removing their kids from an educational
system that undermines Christian values. "Our children deserve better," he says,
"and Southern Baptists should be given the opportunity to express their feelings
about this."
And Dr. Voddie Baucham, another outspoken proponent of an exodus
from public schools, says he endorses the Shortt-Moran resolution in part
because he knows "what it's like to be a poor kid trapped in underperforming
schools." As a child being raised by a single parent in the inner city, he says,
"I had no choice but to accept the inferior education my schools offered -- not
to mention the drugs, sex, and violence that were all part of the
package."
Government schools have not only failed children academically, the
evangelist points out, but they are also "destroying our children spiritually
and morally." That is why he maintains that the SBC must come up with a
comprehensive plan to create a new system of Baptist education that is open to
everyone.
Such a plan, Baucham insists, "needs to take a clear stand on
behalf of kids who find themselves in the same predicament I was in." If SBC
members will stand together, he asserts, the church can provide a high-quality,
Christian alternative to the public schools but can also "use education as a
missional outreach in Urban America."
Moran and Shortt's 2006 resolution
addresses a number of the concerns echoed by other Southern Baptist leaders,
including some of the access issues Baucham raises. While the proposal calls on
the denomination to move on divesting Southern Baptist children from government
schools, it also urges SBC agencies to assist churches as they develop workable
public school exit strategies and to give particular attention to the needs of
orphans, single parents, and the disadvantaged.

Full:

http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/4/262006a.asp

Rick Scarborough PR - Shiavo

I am sure Tom Delay had a lot of good things to say considering his dead father and this issue.
Hypocrites. Haters.Homophobes Conference
- - -

For More Information Contact: Don Feder at 866-522-5582 or at info@vsionamerica.us

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE


CONFERENCE TO ADDRESS ISSUES AT HEART OF TERRI SCHIAVO CASE

March 21, 2005 - Rick Scarborough, temporary chairman of the Judeo-Christian Council for Constitutional Restoration (organizer of the conference Confronting The Judicial War On Faith – April 7-8 in Washington, DC) offered his heartfelt thanks to Congress and President Bush for passing emergency legislation to save the life of Terri Schiavo.

“Thank God we have a Congress and president who care enough about a life imperiled to intervene in this case,” Scarborough commented.

“Like the 1960s, when state courts ignored clear-cut violations of civil rights, federal intervention is necessary. The legislation that passed in the early hours of this morning will facilitate that.”

Scarborough added, “Our upcoming conference on combating judicial tyranny (Confronting The Judicial War On Faith) could not be more timely or more necessary. It was an activist Florida judge who, in effect, passed a death sentence on Terri Schiavo.”

House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (who was instrumental in moving the Schiavo legislation through Congress) will be a keynote speaker at Confronting The Judicial War On Faith.

David C. Gibbs of the Christian Law Association (the attorney for the Schindlers, Terri’s parents) will participate in a panel discussion – “Judges: Abortion And Other Life Issues,” along with former Vatican Ambassador Ray Flynn.

Other speakers at the Confronting The Judicial War On Faith conference include: Senator Sam Brownback, former Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore, Alan Keyes, Phyllis Schlafly and Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council.

The conference also will consider Ten Commandments displays and the right of Americans to publicly acknowledge God, judicial nominations, the judicial assault on marriage and remedies to judicial activism.

Moore, another keynote speaker, was removed as Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court for refusing an illegal order to take down a 10 Commandments monument.
Scarborough stressed: “This will be an action-oriented conference. Our purpose is to draw up a plan of action to oppose the liberal judges who are abrogating our most precious human rights – including the right to life. Out of it will come a coalition of family groups, ministries and churches dedicated to reversing the tide of the past 40 years.”

For more information on the Confronting The Judicial War On Faith Conference – including a complete list of speakers, program and information on registration – go to http://www.stopactivistjudges.org or call 866-522-5582

-30-

Scarborough Press Release Archives

Attn: IRS

For More Information Contact: Don Feder at 866-522-5582 or at info@vsionamerica.us

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE


LATEST ATTACK ON MARRIAGE SHOWS NEED FOR CONFRONTING JUDICIAL WAR ON FAITH CONFERENCE

March 18, 2005 - Dr. Rick Scarborough, acting chairman of the Judeo-Christian Council for Constitutional Restoration, said the California marriage ruling highlighted the need for the Council’s up-coming conference -- Confronting The Judicial War on Faith – April 7-8 at the Washington Marriott in Washington DC.

On Monday, California Superior Court Judge Richard Kramer ruled that a voter-enacted ban on gay marriage violated the state constitution.

The law – limiting marriage to the union of a man and a woman -- was passed by referendum in 2000, with 61.4% of the vote. On Election Day 2004, defense of marriage amendments were enacted by popular vote in 11 states – all by landslide margins.

“Besides being an absolute outrage, this decision demonstrates the determination of liberal judges to defy the will of the people – and clear constitutional mandates – to force their radical theories on the nation,” Scarborough charged.

“And that’s why our conference, Confronting The Judicial War on Faith, is so vitally important,” Scarborough declared. “April 7-8 will be the beginning of a coalition effort among conservative organizations, pro-family groups, ministries and churches to return America to our Judeo-Christian roots and reform a judiciary seemingly intent on overthrowing democracy and radically transforming our society – in ways unimaginable to the Founding Fathers.”

Confirmed Speakers include: Congressman Tom DeLay, Senator Sam Brownback, former Vatican Ambassador Ray Flynn, Phyllis Schlafly, Mike Farris (Home School Legal Defense Association), Roy Moore (former Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court), Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council, Alan Keyes, former Congressman Bill Dannemeyer and Janet Folger.

The conference will consider: The Judicial Assault On Our Judeo-Christian Heritage * Judges: Abortion and Other Life Issues * Judicial Nominations * The Real Constitution * Remedies To Judicial Tyranny *and Mobilizing The Grassroots Against Liberal Judges.

Registration for the two-day conference is $149. More information, including a program for the conference, is available on line at http://www.stopactivistjudges.org.

Confronting The Judicial War On Faith is the first conference to address judicial activism from a faith perspective

Bush Says He Supports Civil Union Legislation

Great news! Our President says he support Civil Unions legislation for GLBT Americans. Havent seen much about this anywhere in the press yet --I am thinking that James Dobson and Rick Scarborough and friends (Gospel of Hate) are not going to be real happy with you on this statement.

Stem Cells, Parkinsons, stupid Republicans.

Rev. Rick Scarborough and druggie Rush Limbauh both oppose stem cell research.

Rev. Rick Scarborough Moronic Quote # 8,934

Rev. Rick Scarborough of Lufkin, Texas based Vision America is a firm believer that the idea of separation of church and state is a big old myth...or in his words...

"separation of church and states is a lie introduced by Satan and fostered by the courts.."

Rick, did someone hit you in the head one day while you were at SFSU playing football? ..or are you just stupid? You are LOCO.

Crazy.

[UNHOLY] Rev. Rick Scarborough Moronic Quote #10135

From Creative Loafing/Atlanta

The Rev. Rick Scarborough, an influential Texas Baptist preacher and founder of the pro-war, pro-GOP Patriot Pastors, declared in March that the deposed House majority leader "was a target for all those who despise the cause of Christ."

Armageddon for the Religious Right? full> Creative Loafing Atlanta
They've climbed to the top of Mount Power. But from here on out, it may be all downhill for America's ayatollahs.
BY JOHN SUGG
Published 05.24.06


On Feb. 22, inside a Clark Atlanta University auditorium, Christianity girded its loins with faith, anointed itself with righteousness and went forth to do battle with, well, Christianity.
It wasn't quite a Tim LaHaye vision of the final conflict at Mount Megiddo. There was no thunderbolt-wielding Christ bloodily massacring gays, Jews, Muslims and billions of others who failed to meet Pat Robertson's criteria for salvation. But the scene wasn't pretty.

Coretta Scott King on Homophobia

I am certain that both Coretta Scott King and Dr. Martin Luther King would have a few words to say to several of the African American preachers of hate who reside in the Atlanta area. They just don't get it. They have been sucked in by the religious right extremist and the Republican Party, both who are desperately seeking non whites, Jews, hispanics in order to add more color into their big white tent organizations. One great example is "Bishop" Wellington of Atlanta who refuses to call gay people anything other than "sodomites." This black racists homophobe holds church in a surburban Atlanta strip mall location who frequently shares the stage with the same people who have purchashed KKK mailing lists in order to expand their base. How tragic.


"Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood," King stated. "This sets the stage for further repression and violence that spread all too easily to victimize the next minority group."
- Chicago Defender, April 1, 1998

"We are all tied together in a single garment of destiny . . . I can never be what I ought to be until you are allowed to be what you ought to be," she said, quoting her husband. "I've always felt that homophobic attitudes and policies were unjust and unworthy of a free society and must be opposed by all Americans who believe in democracy,"
-Chicago Sun Times, April 1, 1998


"For many years now, I have been an outspoken supporter of civil and human rights for gay and lesbian people"

"Gays and lesbians stood up for civil rights in Montgomery, Selma, in Albany, Ga. and St. Augustine, Fla., and many other campaigns of the Civil Rights Movement," she said. "Many of these courageous men and women were fighting for my freedom at a time when they could find few voices for their own, and I salute their contributions."
-Lamda Legal Defense and Education Fund Luncheon 25th Anniversary

"We are all tied together in a single garment of destiny . . . I can never be what I ought to be until you are allowed to be what you ought to be," she said, quoting her husband. "I've always felt that homophobic attitudes and policies were unjust and unworthy of a free

All About Rick

Rick Scarborough of Lufkin Texas based Vision America. Great story from Americans United.

Fright Plan
May 06, 2006
Americans United for Separation of Church and State

Fright Plan
Texas Preacher Scares Up A ‘War On Christians’ In Bid To Turn Out ‘Values Voters’ For The GOP In The 2006 Election
by Jeremy Leaming

The Rev. Rick Scarborough is on a mission to save evangelical Christians from what he claims is a cabal of left-wing forces bent on oppressing their values and ruining America.

At a Washington, D.C., gathering in late March sponsored by his Vision America organization, the Texas preacher and an array of invited speakers spent hours blasting the alleged enemies of Christianity and arguing that to save America from moral ruin more evangelicals needed to get politically active.

Even though Congress and the White House are controlled by people who have been friendly to the Religious Right cause, Scarborough and his cohorts maintained during their “‘War on Christians’ and The Values Voter in 2006” conference that animosity towards Christianity is on the increase.

“We are here in Washington, D.C., so we can bring a focus and hopefully initiate a national debate on this matter of the growing hostility to all things religious,” Scarborough told a sparsely attended opening session at a ballroom in the Omni Shoreham.

After two days of speakers, including U.S. Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas), U.S. Rep. Tom DeLay (R-Texas), Phyllis Schlafly, Alan Keyes, Gary Bauer, TV preacher Rod Parsley and a string of panel discussions, it was hard to come away not thinking that despite all the bluster and overwrought rhetoric, the conference was nothing but a thinly veiled effort to rally so-called “values voters” on behalf of the Republican Party for the approaching elections and bolster Scarborough’s national profile.

As the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, told Cox News Service, “This ‘war’ is nothing real. The fact is, Christians in America are a cultural majority, and they are an extremely powerful group. But what you have here are second-tier preachers who are hoping to hit the big time, desperately hoping for a national spotlight.”


Full Story:
http://www.au.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=8185&abbr=cs_
Full Story:

All About Rick

Rick Scarborough of Lufkin Texas based Vision America. Great story from Americans United.

Fright Plan
May 06, 2006
Americans United for Separation of Church and State

Fright Plan
Texas Preacher Scares Up A ‘War On Christians’ In Bid To Turn Out ‘Values Voters’ For The GOP In The 2006 Election
by Jeremy Leaming

The Rev. Rick Scarborough is on a mission to save evangelical Christians from what he claims is a cabal of left-wing forces bent on oppressing their values and ruining America.

At a Washington, D.C., gathering in late March sponsored by his Vision America organization, the Texas preacher and an array of invited speakers spent hours blasting the alleged enemies of Christianity and arguing that to save America from moral ruin more evangelicals needed to get politically active.

Even though Congress and the White House are controlled by people who have been friendly to the Religious Right cause, Scarborough and his cohorts maintained during their “‘War on Christians’ and The Values Voter in 2006” conference that animosity towards Christianity is on the increase.

“We are here in Washington, D.C., so we can bring a focus and hopefully initiate a national debate on this matter of the growing hostility to all things religious,” Scarborough told a sparsely attended opening session at a ballroom in the Omni Shoreham.

After two days of speakers, including U.S. Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas), U.S. Rep. Tom DeLay (R-Texas), Phyllis Schlafly, Alan Keyes, Gary Bauer, TV preacher Rod Parsley and a string of panel discussions, it was hard to come away not thinking that despite all the bluster and overwrought rhetoric, the conference was nothing but a thinly veiled effort to rally so-called “values voters” on behalf of the Republican Party for the approaching elections and bolster Scarborough’s national profile.

As the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, told Cox News Service, “This ‘war’ is nothing real. The fact is, Christians in America are a cultural majority, and they are an extremely powerful group. But what you have here are second-tier preachers who are hoping to hit the big time, desperately hoping for a national spotlight.”


Full Story:
http://www.au.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=8185&abbr=cs_
Full Story:

PFC Barry Winchell's Murderer Released

This just makes me sick. When news of this murder hit the papers I remember It made me cry. What a beautiful man, murdered by hate. I will never forget hearing Barry Winchell's mother speak once about hate crimes. Such a sad tragic story. Rolling Stone article on the murder, interesting stuff about Justin Fisher

From Raw Story:

A soldier convicted in connection to an anti-gay murder in 1999 has been released early by the U.S. Army, according to reports by an activist group.

Former Army Specialist Justin Fisher, who was convicted of conspiracy to murder Private First Class Barry Winchell at Fort Campbell, KY, has been released from prison after serving just seven years of a 12 1/2 year sentence.

Winchell was attacked in July 1999 by Calvin Glover, a former soldier based at Fort Campbell, in what was later revealed as an anti-gay hate crime. A later investigation by Servicemembers Legal Defense Network (SLDN) found that Winchell had been the target of anti-gay harassment in the months leading up to his murder.

"Army leaders gave Justin Fisher a shockingly lenient sentence in the first place, but just as importantly, they have also failed, every day since, to protect other soldiers from Barry's fate," said Patricia and Wally Kutteles, PFC Winchell's parents, in a release issued today. "As a mother, I never want to see Barry's story repeated. As an American, I am outraged that our leaders have taken no action to make sure it never happens again."

Full Story

Love Won Out Atlanta Protest

Hey Atlanta Love Won Out is coming to a church near you. Join us to protest the Ex Gay frauds (Johnn Paulk), and Focus on the Family. Check back for details. As always, the selected church is way out in the suburbs -in this case a 20-30 minute drive from Midtown. Be there!

Protests planned for ATL ex-gay conference

Friday, October 27, 2006


Love Won Out, a daylong conference which seeks to promote “the truth that change is possible for those who experience same-sex attractions,” will be met by at least some protest from groups who oppose the ex-gay movement.

Produced by Focus on the Family, an anti-gay evangelical organization founded by James Dobson, Love Won Out will begin at 8 a.m. at the First Baptist Church in Woodstock, the church attended by Gov. Sonny Perdue. Classes and information sessions include “Preventing Male Homosexuality” and “Straight Thinking on Gay Marriage.”

Wayne Besen, executive director of the non-profit group Truth Wins Out, which contradicts claims of ex-gay therapy success, promises to greet conference attendees from protest lines outside.

“We want as many people as possible to show up to say that this is wrong. They’re hurting people with that propaganda,” said Besen, author of “Anything But Straight: Unmasking the Scandals and Lies Behind the Ex-Gay Myth.” SoulForce, which combats anti-gay religious and political messages, will join Besen and Truth Wins Out at the protest.

Zack Hudson

Rev. Rick Scarborough

Sorry Rev. Scarborough, but we don't "deserve to become the next example like Germany" --really no one does. Instead we will remember Hitler Germany and fight to make sure you Hitlers (yes, you Rev. Rick Scarborough and all your extremist Christian friends) do not jail and exterminate us again.


Full Article
Rick Scarborough, president of Vision America, also spoke at the dinner. Scarborough commented on how Catholics, Lutherans and Baptists were coming together to speak at this event, and said that if such a group “can’t get it right, then we deserve to become the next example like Germany of what happens when a people ignores their duty.”

Scarborough called on pastors to preach to their people, encouraging them to be the “salt and light” they are called to be. He also encouraged pastors to make sure their congregations are registered to vote, then lead the way in voting themselves.

“As the church goes, so goes the nation,” Dr. Scarborough told them. “As the pastor goes, so goes the church.”

“Apathy is wickedness,” Dr. Scarborough said when he got up to speak. “If ever there was an opportunity to see the tragedy of Roe v. Wade overturned, it is now.”

Scarborough discussed the moral downfall in the fabric of our society, stating in the span of just one generation, “We’ve moved from a nation under God to a nation at war with God. If you remove the foundations of God’s word, who’s to say what’s wrong and what’s right?”

Speaking of the intimidation of churches by secularists, Scarborough mentioned the letters frequently sent out by Barry Lynn of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, and said, “It’s time for preachers of this nation to throw off those shackles.”

Scarborough challenged people to get active in the fight against abortion and homosexual “marriage,” telling them, “We’ve been able to hide behind the judges, but on November 7 in the state of South Dakota, the people decide. To fail to vote is to vote for abortion.”

Small Win in New Jersey for GLBT Americans

How hateful that these Christian preacher fundies oppose even civil unions in America. Absolutely shameful Rev. Rick Scarborough and Vision America.

From NPR:

All Things Considered, October 25, 2006 · New Jersey's highest court rules that same-sex couples are entitled to the same rights as heterosexual couples. Now, it will be up to the legislature to rewrite state laws to provide for gay marriage or some other form of civil union.

In handing a partial victory to supporters of gay marriage, the New Jersey Supreme Court gave the state's legislature 6 months to come up with a plan to enable gay unions.

Lawmakers can decide whether to change the laws of marriage or to create a new type of union that is equal to marriage. That stipulation makes the ruling more similar to a recent decision in Vermont.

The ruling could have an affect on upcoming elections: The entire New Jersey Assembly is up for re-election in less than two weeks, as are many state senators.

Robert Siegel talks to reporter Nancy Solomon.

Rick Scarborough on Judges

Full Transcript at: http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcriptNOW124_full.html
------------------
MORON:
moron (plural morons)
A term for a mentally deficient person whose mental age is equivalent to that of someone between eight and twelve years of age.
(Informal) A person who makes uncool, unfunny, uninteresting, or irrelevant (see lame) attempts to impress others and draw attention to himself; especially in a flawed attempt to act like someone else.

Rick Scarborough is a Moron, attempting to act like a Christian. Proof
---


RICK SCARBOROUGH: When a judge misbehaves, when he defies the will of the people and, I would say, defined by exceeding Constitutional authority, then simply remove his funding. Let him convene his court in his car with no assistance, no courtroom and I mean, he's appointed for life, let him live for life. Pay his salary, just don't pay his court.

JUJU CHANG: And who would be left to rule on-- contracts, conflicts and--

RICK SCARBOROUGH: We're not talking about all judges.

JUJU CHANG: So punish certain judges that you point out?

RICK SCARBOROUGH: Withdraw funding.

JUJU CHANG: Withdraw funding.

Retire Fundie Marilyn Musgrove!

Help Retire Colorado megabitch Marilyn Musgrove. Angie Paccione is in a dead heat race to topple this extreme right wing fundie in Colorado.
http://www.angie2006.com

'Ex-Gay' Group Draws Fire From Allies

Rick Scarborough of Vision America spreads lies and misinformation about the gay and lesbian (GLBT) community the same way that the EX GAY group "NARTH" does....using false or fabricated research. Looks like some of the NARTH friends have said ENOUGH is ENOUGH.
(excerpt:)LA TIMES

'Ex-Gay' Group Draws Fire From Allies
Backers raise concerns about online postings. One advocated ridicule of nonconforming children; the other seemed to justify slavery.
By Stephanie Simon, Time Staff Writer
October 15, 2006

The National Assn. for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality positions itself as a scientific group dedicated to helping gay men and lesbians shed same-sex attractions and realize their "heterosexual potential."
Its statements routinely outrage gay-rights activists. But two commentaries posted online in recent months by members of NARTH's scientific advisory committee have raised concerns among its closest allies as well.

FULL STORY:http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-exgay15oct15,0,982244.story?coll=la-home-nation

Fundie Rev. Rick Scarborough on YouTube.com

Rev. Rick Scarborough Vision America Rally. Word has it that attendance at his "values voters" targeted rallies is really pathetic! At one church in Missouri last month he only filled up 1/4 of the total seating available. Maybe folks are just tired of his hate speech and stupid ideas, his opposition to stem cell research, and his push for a "Christian Nation." Looks like his PR machine has put a video on you tube! I think this rally was in South Dakota. Notice how the stillshot of this video on YouTube makes it look like someone over at the Corn Palace just shoved a corn cob up the UNHOLY Reverened's ...

Boycott Right Wing Businesses

I find it interesting that thse boneheads at AFA want to boycott everyone who does anything gay-friendly. Fortunately, that is most business today. (Ford, Target, WalMart, American Airlines, Starwood, P and G, Disney) Since gay and lesbians are currently the "darlings of the travel industry," here is some advice:

-Do not stay at a Drury Inn - anywhere...for any reason. (Not that you might for some reason decide to stay at a "drury" verses the local W Hotel by Starwood.

Drury's CEO is making the stump circuit with Rev. Rick Scarborough. No more dreary, Drury Hotels, folks.

BOYCOTT
1. Drury Hotels
2. Chic Fil A

...to be continue.

Letter to Tony Perkins

A Letter to Tony Perkins

Brian Kaylor
10-18-06
Dear Tony,
I am so excited to hear that you found liberty this past Sunday.
I went to church to worship God, since it was the holy Sabbath day, so I missed this much more important event of yours.
What a wonderful feeling that must be to finally be free! Hopefully this is the beginning of Christian liberty in America. Maybe we will soon be free and safe like Christians are in other nations, such as North Korea, Sudan and Iran.
It is high time we Christians start demanding our liberty. After all, we have no voice or freedoms in America. What we need is someone like you in Washington fighting to get us power and liberty. Maybe some day because of your efforts we will have a Christian as president. Maybe we'll even see the day when most congressmen and Supreme Court justices are also Christians. Wow, then our nation will be perfect! No more wars, corruption or sex scandals.
It is that dream of a nation led by Christians that led me to write you this congratulatory note about "Liberty Sunday."
When I first heard about the rally I had no idea it was an anti-homosexuality rally. That was really clever of you guys. I would have never thought that banning anyone's right to marriage could be called "liberty." Kudos on your Orwellian mastery of language! God must be so proud of you.
It was also a clever trick to use a photo of the Old North Church on your advertisements. It is an Episcopalian church, which is the denomination with the bishop who is gay (or, to use the Christ-like terms that "Liberty Sunday" speaker Wellington Boone used at a different Family Research Council event, "faggot" and "sissy").
I know some homosexuals today often view that church as a place where they are welcomed and affirmed, so good job trying to symbolically spit in their face. They need to know they are not welcomed or affirmed! We must follow the example of Jesus and not hang out with sinners.
Of course, it was also good to use that church, since it helped play on the heroism of Paul Revere and other Bostonians. In your promotional materials you called Boston "a birthplace of America's liberty."
As a Baptist I'm often told it was Roger Williams in Rhode Island who created the first colony with true religious liberty. But I now realize you are correct. By kicking Williams out, the Massachusetts Bay Colony created true religious liberty. Likewise, kicking gays out of our nation will give us liberty. Anyway, Williams was probably gay since he dared challenge the religious leaders. He might not have been gay, but we should say it—the truth does not really matter as much as helping the Republicans win elections.
Speaking of ignoring the truth, I was intrigued by many of the exaggerations made at the event Sunday. I was particularly shocked to learn from speaker Roberto Miranda that Massachusetts was "the birthplace of Christianity." Wow! And here I thought Israel deserved such honor.
Is that why you all had Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney there? As a Mormon he must be closer to the truth of Jesus starting Christianity in America. I guess I'll vote for him for president now.
I was alarmed when Romney explained that by allowing same-sex marriage, "activist judges struck a blow to the foundation of civilization." I had no clue that same-sex marriage was so dangerous!
I need to go and read the book of Revelation again to catch this. I sure do not want to be left behind because of same-sex marriage. I bet the antichrist will be gay. You should make that the title of your next video or book.
I was most impressed by the sermon by Wellington Boone as he argued that "sodomites" should be subjected to capital punishment. What a great idea! There is no better way to share the love of Jesus than to kill homosexuals. I hope everyone in America was listening to this rational and godly man.
About the only thing I would have liked to have seen, Mr. Perkins, was more of your personal story. Let us know about your past bondage so we can understand how great your new liberty must feel.
You could have told us how you brought a mailing list from former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke so you could win a political election. Or, you could have told us how you spoke to the Louisiana chapter of the racist organization the Council of Conservative Citizens. Either of this could have helped us know that you understand what it is like to be a slave!

Oh well, there is always the chance to cover that in Liberty Sunday II or III. I'm assuming there will be a trilogy like with the "Justice Sunday" rallies that fought for Bush's divinely chosen court nominees.
Continuing this new series will be as important as it was to film the sequels to "Bring it On" and "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles." Keep up the great and important work of spreading the hate of God. I am sure God will have plenty to say to you someday because of this!

Love (in a completely pure and heterosexual a manner),



Brian



Brian Kaylor is communications specialist with the Baptist General Convention of Missouri.


-----
From EthicsDaily.com
http://www.ethicsdaily.com/article_detail.cfm?AID=8034

Rosie Was Right!

Rosie was right that the American Taliban (right wing preachers like Rick Scarborough) are just as dangerous as the other Taliban. They may not be strapping bombs to their chests and blowing up the local HRC dinner or a gay pride group, but their continued assault and hate speech directed toward GLBT people is no different.

If the Muslim community in the U.S.A. agrees with this guy, I say dont let the door hit you in the ass. We don't need any more religious extremism in America, or in the World.

From Gay.com (excerpt)
Killing gay men is OK, says British imam
published Monday, October 23, 2006

The leading imam in Manchester, England, confirms that he thinks the execution of sexually active gay men is justified, the rights group Outrage reported.
Arshad Misbahi of the Manchester Central Mosque confirmed his views in a conversation to John Casson, a local psychotherapist.

Casson said: "I asked him if the execution of gay Muslims in Iran and Iraq was an acceptable punishment in Sharia law, or the result of culture, not religion.

"He told me that in a true Islamic state, such punishments were part of Islam: If the person had had a trial, at which four witnesses testified that they had seen the actual homosexual acts."

Stella Byrd Interview.

In case you missed this one. God Bless Stella Byrd and the Byrd family for standing up to George Bush and the Christian identified haters like Rick Scarborough at Vision America.

Scarborough the Dominionist.

Rev. Rick Scarborough has a PR team on his staff to help him appear more mainstream, but don't be fooled by this fool. He advocates total Christian Dominion in the United States (and World!) Watch this excellent video with your high speed internet...It is an excellent description of dominionism.

Dear Dr. Dobson.

BlogActive.com's Roy Cohn Awards

I love Mike Roger's BlogActive.com blogsite! Check out the left margin which lists all the important folks in D.C. who are GLBT, probably closeted, and could be labeled as hypocrites. His latest outing was the Legislative Director for Senator Tom Coburn of Oklahama. Gay people are everywhere! Gay people are working in the offices of some of the TOP TEN Homophobic legislators in D.C, pushing legislation for their boss to further the extreme right wing agenda, and hurting the GLBT community with continued hate rhetoric.

While in college I had the great opportunity to work for Congressman Jack Brooks of Beaumont, Texas. Congressman Brooks (D) was in Congress for decades, was liberal, and was probably one of the best Congresspersons EVER in regards to servicing his constituent requests. I know that Jack Brooks would have had a very high scorecard from the Human Rights Campaign and would not have been afraid to tell some of the religious extremist lobbyist to take a hike.

Congressmen Brooks took me to a lot of lunches where I found myself eating with some of the most important legislators of the eighties. I just loved it of course, as much as the Congressman loved telling his fellow Congressmen that I was on the staff for the summer and my daddy was a big Republican in his district.

Rev. Rick Scarborough often claims credit for helping retire Jack Brooks. More later on the reputation Rev. Rick's buddie who is frequently seen on the Worst Ever Congressman Lists-Steve Stockman. Thanks Congressman Brooks for being a true leader and friend.

Senator Coburn, so what do you do now knowing that a "homo" has infultrated your office?

Rev. Rick Scarborough Moronic Fundie Quote #1

"An atmosphere of atheism is being forced upon us by the courts."

Rev. Rick Scarborough

I disagree. Fundamentalist extremist dominionist Christian Nationalists like Lufkin, Texas based Rev. Rick Scarborough of Vision America, Inc. and friends are doing much more to promote Atheism than are all the Courts combined.

Homophobe Sen. Tom Colburn's

Hypocracy 101.

Add Oklahoma Senator Tom Coburn is a Homophobic Hypocrite. This clown is one of the most right wing nut Senators on the Hill. I remember my good friend Hannah flying out from D.C. (she is a lobbyist) to help his (unsuccessful) opponent in the last election. He won, gay people lost. His anti gay rhetoric is sometimes hard for me to stomach. Keep in mind that this is a fundie Christian physician turned politico who made the statement that "condoms work about fifty percent of the time," who feels that PWA in San Francisco have "too many options," and suffers from Falwell foot in mouth syndrome.

I hate to think that my sister and her beautiful children must live in a state like Oklahoma which is represented by this wacko Republican.

This outing of Roland Foster today at BlogActive's Mike Rodgers is justified! You guys go find someone (anyone) to work for where your daily job doesnt negatively impact your own community. It may be hard to replace that $102,000 salary Roland Foster but your outing might help future generations of GLBT youth/people.

A ZERO scorecard from the Human Rights Campaign is pathetic Senator Coburn. Your hate speech directed at gay and lesbians is unconscionable.

Here is the BlogActive link and full story

Condemn Not Mr. Scarborough

Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned.

Luke 6 : 37

God Bless You Mel White

http://www.soulforce.org

Right Wing Hate Targeted at GLBT Youth & GSA's

Welcome to Georgia. Home of the Christian redneck. It is no wonder that so many Gay people in Georgia try to avoid anything outside of the Perimeter in Atlanta.

ACTUP - Call the Georgia Board of Education Mr.Dana Tofig, Director of Communications. Phone (404) 463-1487 Email : dtofig@doe.k12.ga.us


FROM SOVO.COM [ FULL ARTICLE ]
Ga. schools in denial over anti-gay bullying
While extremists push an agenda driven by bigotry rather than student needs, state officials stick their heads in the sand.


By Kevin Jennings
Friday, October 20, 2006


SOME PEOPLE JUST don’t get it.

On October Oct. 4, our organization, GLSEN (the Gay, Lesbian, and & Straight Education Network), released “From Teasing to Torment: A Profile of School Climate in Georgia” that showed students in Georgia see bullying and harassment in schools to be a much bigger problem than do students in the nation as a whole.

In fact, Georgia students were 1/3 more likely to say that bullying and harassment were serious problems in their schools than the typical American student (49 percent versus 36 percent).

In response, Georgia Department of Education Communications Director Dana Tofig told Southern Voice, “I wouldn’t say that there’s a high level [of bullying in Georgia schools]. It happens, it probably happens at every school in Georgia … but also across the nation,” he said.

With all due respect, Mr. Tofig: Wrong answer.

Did Mr. Tofig do miss that 49 percent is much higher than 36 percent? Or is he proving, as some wags would put it, that “denial is not just a river in Egypt?” I suspect it is the latter. We all want to pretend that bullying and harassment are somebody else’s problems. But students in Georgia have said, loud and clear, this is not the case.

UNFORTUNATELY, EDUCATION poli-cymakers in Georgia show a disturbing tendency to ignore the facts in favor of unfounded ideology when it comes to what works in making schools safe. For example, “From Teasing to Torment” found that Georgia students in schools without Gay-Straight Alliance (GSA) clubs were three times more likely to report that bullying and harassment were serious problems than those who attended schools that had GSAs (52 versus 17 percent).

Not "Conservative" You are Extremist!

Just Jerry, Barry? How about Jerry, Jr. aka Rick Scarborough....how about all of them.

Barry Goldwater :"I don't have any respect for the Religious Right." "Every good Christian should line up and kick Jerry Falwell's ass."


"The religious factions will go on imposing their will on others,"
"A woman has a right to an abortion."

Give Bigotry The Boot

Vote Early and Volunteer! http://www.hrc.org

True Christians - Eye to Eye CBS News Video

Tony Perkins is an extremist "Christian" obsessed with gays and lesbians and hate. He is narrow minded and doesnt speak for me. Jim Willis is the type of Christian I respect.

To View the Video at CBS.com click > Tony Perkins = Clown

Rev.Rick Scarborough Hate Speech

Not only are they forcing their intolerance on all of us, they are constantly claiming to be the only "Christians" on the block. Rev. Rick Scarborough and Vision America - you are not being very Christian constantly spewing your anti gay hate speech. Your hate speech leads to gay bashings, hate crimes, and murder. If you agree, email them, call them, fax them, show up at their next rally and scream and yell. Call them today and tell them to shut the hell up.

P.O. Box 10 Lufkin, TX 75902** I do not think they have an actual office.
Vision America Phone 866-522-5582 Vision America Fax 936-560-3902
>>mail@visionamerica.us
April 20, 2006 at 22:00:00

Excerpt:
The Religious Right to fight tolerance programs for Gays and Lesbiansby Richard Mathis

http://www.opednews



The Rev. Rick Scarborough, who brought us the conference on the “War on Christians,” called the crusade to eliminate all tolerance for gays and lesbians as the modern struggle for civil rights for Christians. ''Christians,'' he said, ''are going to have to take a stand for the right to be Christian.'' Apparently to Scarborough this means that to be Christian means having the right to force their intolerance on all of us.

Furthermore, if you oppose their intolerance and casting of Bibles then you are as equally as intolerant as they are, or so they loudly claim. Indeed, they have a cadre of lawyers such as the Christian Legal Society, made up of lawyers and judges, and nonprofit law firms that are paid by groups such as Focus on the Family and Campus Crusade for Christ. Their argument is simple: any policy that intends to protect gays and lesbians from discrimination discriminates against conservative Christians.

If the religious right wants to argue that their religion requires them to condemn and discriminate, that’s perfectly suitable in accordance with the freedom of speech that we liberals were thoughtful enough to incorporate in the constitution that we wrote. Wolves in sheep’s clothes can’t help but howl. If the religious right doesn’t have anything better to do with its time than to claim that its being discriminated against for not being able to discriminate then let their actions lend credence to the claims that they are not at all about the business of Jesus but are simply ravenous wolves hungry for power. They are akin to those in the story who cast stones claiming that Jesus was condemning and judgmental in stopping them from stoning.

Full Story

Baptist Preacher Predators

Of course you rarely hear much about all of the Baptist preachers playing with little children, maybe because the news is so full of Catholic coverups and pedophilia, or because the Baptists are so busy bashing gay people every day.

Meet Christa Brown. Christa Brown is the founder of Voice to Stop Baptist Predators and the coordinator for SNAP-Baptist. She is a wife, mother, attorney, jazz-lover, slow-plodding-runner, and a survivor of Southern Baptist clergy abuse. www.stopbaptistpredators.org

An Excerpt from her Op Ed Piece at Op Ed News

Just three days before Representative Foley resigned, I was standing at the doorstep of the Southern Baptist Convention, asking it to implement procedures to rid their ranks of clergy predators and make kids safer. Along with other delegates from SNAP - the Survivors' Network of those Abused by Priests and other Clergy - we presented Baptist leaders with a letter asking for the creation of an independent review board to investigate accounts of clergy sex abuse. Despite a multi-part series in EthicsDaily, the SBC's response has been one of avoidance.

Fullhttp://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_christa__061019_baptistgate_parallel.htm

Rick Scarborough on Public Schools

Rev. Rick Scarborough thinks that we should all pull our children from public schools, and so does the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) As always, these people are just obsessed with the notion that "gay people" and "activist judges" have ruined public schools.

So go right on ahead and pull your little kids out of public schools folks -- all we need is another generation of homeschooled, narrow minded white children taught to hate by their misguided "Christian" parents - like Rick Scarborough. No thanks!

From WorldNetDaily >full story here
Rick Scarborough, founder of Vision America and author of "Liberalism Kills Kids," said schools have long since stopped providing positive reinforcement of traditional values.

"In fact, they are not even neutral on many crucial issues which are important to people of faith. Unfortunately, public education has been hijacked by people who reject Biblical teachings on man's origin, the proper role of sex and the acceptability of homosexuality. These are non-compromising issues for Christians."

The resolution notes that federal judges have allowed that "parents have no constitutional right … to prevent a public school from providing its students with whatever information it wishes to provide, sexual or otherwise …" and specifically permitted government schools to teach Darwinism and the acceptability of homosexuality.

Scarborough Blames The Left / Gays

Look folks the Rev. Rick Scarborough feels the need to "chime in" on the tired Foleygate. Let's just point the finger at Mark Foley Rev. Scarborough. His life story is more and more tragic every day. Tragic, because assholes like you will not let us live our life as our God (yes, yours and mine) made us. Stop your Hate!



Vision America Press ReleaseVision America President Dr. Rick Scarborough said the saga of Florida Republican Congressman Mark Foley sending sexually explicit e-mails to former House pages is an absolute outrage.

“What on earth is going on in Washington?” Scarborough asked. “Here you have a congressman who’s clearly a sexual predator sending obscene e-mails to underage boys. Resignation is not enough. Foley should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.’

At the same time, Scarborough noted the hypocrisy of the left in trying to make political hay out of the scandal.

“Who wants to de-construct marriage? Who persecutes the Boy Scouts for prohibiting gay scoutmasters? In other words, who’s lobbying for allowing gay men like Mark Foley to go into the woods with groups of young boys?” Scarborough asked.

“I am pleased that such a diverse crescendo of outrage is coming from both sides of the political spectrum over this evil,” Scarborough said.

“I invite my liberal friends to join in a bi-partisan effort to protect children from sexual predators. Let’s pass a Federal ‘Jessica’s Law’ mandating maximum penalties on those who would sexually exploit the most vulnerable. Let’s work together to protect the Boy Scouts deciding that gay men have no more business sleeping in a tent with boys than do heterosexual men sleeping in a tent with girls. Let’s pass a bipartisan bill to ensure that parents are notified before their underage daughter has an abortion. And let’s agree to never again discuss lowering our age of consent laws,” Scarborough urged.

Scarborough also accused the media of selectively reporting the facts about Foley. “They don’t tell you that Foley was on the advisory board of liberal Republican Christine Todd Whitman’s It’s My Party Too PAC. They don’t tell you that Foley was a favorite of the homosexual Log Cabin Republicans, or that his picture used to appear on its website,” Scarborough charged.

“They’d like to you to think that Foley was just a typical Red-State Congressman. Far from it!”

Scarborough promised that Vision America would continue to uphold Biblical morality and condemn evil wherever it’s found without fear or favoritism.

Vision America is currently mobilizing Christian around the country to vote their Biblical values. In March, Vision America held the widely covered “War on Christians And Values Voters In 2006” conference at the Omni Shoreham Hotel in Washington, D.C.

For more information on Vision America, visit our website, www.visionamerica.us. To schedule an interview with Dr. Scarborough, contact Don Feder at (508) 405-1337

Taught to Hate? You decide

Below is a great story written by Rev. Irene Monroe for The Advocate. I know nothing about why Anne Coulter is such a mega bitch hurling hate speech daily. (Yes Ann I am offended when you say "fag" and next time you come to my town I will remind you. As for Tequila Mel Gibson (what an idiot) --I read that his father is one of those crazies who thinks the Holocaust didnt happen. I agree with Joan Rivers - we don't need ya.

Here is an excerpt from the great article on Hate Speech:

Hate speech is not a passive form of public speech. And one of the signs of an intolerant society is its hate speech, whether used jokingly or intentionally, aimed at specific groups of people. When this form of verbal abuse becomes part and parcel of the everyday parlance between people, we have created a society characterized by its zero-tolerance of inclusion and diversity, where name-calling becomes an accepted norm.
Lately this Republican political era of "compassionate conservatism" has brought forward an unabashed no-holds-barred attitude when it comes to passionate invective hurled at queers, African-Americans and Jews.

First Freedom First! Sign the Petition

http://www.firstfreedomfirst.org
Sign It!

Christian Extremists on "Torture"

Rick Scarborough of Vision America and his evangelical nutbag preachers of the Gospel of Hate amaze me more and more every day.

You can bet your ass that Vision America, Rick Scarborough, AFA, Focus on the Family, CWA, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, the Republican Party of Texas, cult leader Rev. Moon, and all the other clowns in the parade have a very strict game plan on most issues. They torture those of us who are Christian and homosexual every day. They spread messages of hate about gays and lesbian people which lead to acts of violence and murder every year. You might think that one thing these fanatics might be opposed to is TORTURE. Amazingly, they are not.

Rev. Scarborough - here is some History of the Christian Church in regards to torture:

"...But against all these powers were the words of Jesus, bidding men 'Love your enemies' 'Do good to them that despitefully use you!' and the like commands.working everywhere on individual souls, heard from pulpits and in monasteries, read over by humble believers, and slowly making their way against barbaric passion and hierarchic cruelty. Gradually, in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, the books containing the message of Jesus circulated among all classes, and produced that state of mind and heart in which torture could not be used on a fellow-being, and in which such an abuse and enormity as the Inquisition was hurled to the earth."

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/editorial/15634263.htm

Rev. Rick Scarborough of Vision America in Lufkin, Texas
--where do you stand on torture?

Rick Scarborough If you think torture (and hate and lies)are good values for any Christian, then you have been hanging out with creeps and liars like Mr. and Mrs. Tom Delay.

-------------------------------------------
Editorial by Randall Balmer
Professor of American Religious History, Columbia University
September 29, 2006
Philadelphia Inquirer

Here is an excerpt from the full article in the Philadelphia Inquirer
Similarly, the religious right has been silent on the matter of torture, conducted either by American personnel in Abu Ghraib and Guantánamo Bay or by proxy in places like Egypt and Syria under a cynical policy known as "extraordinary rendition."

Several months ago, I canvassed eight prominent religious right organizations, including the Moral Majority Coalition, Falwell's group, for their views on torture. My query was straightforward: Please send me, I asked, a copy of your organization's position on the use of torture. These are groups that have detailed position papers on everything, including stem-cell research and same-sex unions, yet only two answered my query. Both of them defended the Bush administration's policies on torture. No organization associated with the religious right has yet, to my knowledge, summoned the will to issue a statement of unequivocal opposition to the use of torture.

These are people who claim to be "pro-life" and who profess to hear a "fetal scream." Yet they turn a deaf ear to the very real screams of fully formed human beings who are tortured in our name.

The religious right's indifference toward the ethical issues surrounding war and torture is hardly befitting those who designate themselves the moral arbiters of our society. If my fellow evangelicals aspire to be the conscience of America, they had better liberate themselves from their captivity to the Republican Party and to the morally bankrupt policies of the Bush administration.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Similarly, the religious right has been silent on the matter of torture, conducted either by American personnel in Abu Ghraib and Guantánamo Bay or by proxy in places like Egypt and Syria under a cynical policy known as "extraordinary rendition."

Several months ago, I canvassed eight prominent religious right organizations, including the Moral Majority Coalition, Falwell's group, for their views on torture. My query was straightforward: Please send me, I asked, a copy of your organization's position on the use of torture. These are groups that have detailed position papers on everything, including stem-cell research and same-sex unions, yet only two answered my query. Both of them defended the Bush administration's policies on torture. No organization associated with the religious right has yet, to my knowledge, summoned the will to issue a statement of unequivocal opposition to the use of torture.

These are people who claim to be "pro-life" and who profess to hear a "fetal scream." Yet they turn a deaf ear to the very real screams of fully formed human beings who are tortured in our name.

The religious rights' indifference toward the ethical issues surrounding war and torture is hardly befitting those who designate themselves the moral arbiters of our society. If my fellow evangelicals aspire to be the conscience of America, they had better liberate themselves from their captivity to the Republican Party and to the morally bankrupt policies of the Bush administration.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does Republican leadership see the Christian leader wackos as a bunch of "wackos" --sounds like it. Link to the Tucker Carlson comment.

National Coming Out Day - Remembering Rob Eichberg

Survey: 7 of 10 Americans know someone gay
published Tuesday, October 10, 2006
As gay men and lesbians celebrate another National Coming Out Day on Wednesday, a new survey reports seven out of 10 straight adults in the United States say they know someone who is lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender.
The nationwide Harris Interactive online survey of 2,932 U.S. adults also found that 83 percent of those who self-identify as gay or lesbian consider themselves out.

When LGBT respondents were asked if they considered themselves open about their sexual orientation, 92 percenet said they are out to their close friends, and 78 percent said they are out to their parents.

A majority also indicated they are out to other people in their lives, including grandparents, cousins, acquaintances and casual friends, and coworkers and colleagues.

"If seven out of 10 heterosexuals know someone who is GLBT, then many gays and lesbians are making their identity apparent as a natural part of their lives -- just like their age, height, hair color, or personality," said Mark Shields, director of the Human Rights Campaign's National Coming Out Project.
When we come out we win. When they know us, they support us. I am tired of waiting for all the homophobic old preachers to die off and be replaced by tolerant kids from the MTV generation. It is only a matter of time before we win .

Every NCOD each year I think of Dr. Rob Eichberg in Santa Fe who founded NCOD. Rob died of AIDS in 1994 and his lectures and mentoring and friendship back when I was living in Santa Fe, New Mexico is a great reason I am alive and out and happy today. I miss you Rob --thanks for what your leadership and vision.

From out.com

"For most people, coming out or opening up to someone starts with a conversation. And for those interested in fostering strong, deep relationships with their friends and family, living openly often allows for closer relationships with the people they care about most."

Still, more than half of those who are lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender said that concern about being the victim of a hate crime remains a deterrent to coming out. Other concerns that LGBT adults cite as to why a person might not come out include rejection by their families and friends and the threat of losing their jobs.

The survey was conducted Sept. 7-14 by Harris Interactive in conjunction with Witeck-Combs Communications Inc., a strategic public relations and marketing communications firm with special expertise in the LGBT market. (The Advocate)

UCC's Rev. John Thomas Blasts Idiot Tony Perkins

Well God Bless America a Rev. makes the news and blasts Family Research Council's Tony Perkins. Tony is a shithead homophobic asshole spreading lies and misinformation about gays and lesbians on a daily basis.

Press Release from United Church of Christ's Rev. John Thomas.


In Wake of Foley Scandal, United Church of Christ Leader Criticizes Family Research Council's Perkins for Attacking Gays, Lesbians

10/5/2006 2:44:00 PM


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To: National Desk, Religion Reporter

Contact: The Rev. J. Bennett Guess of the United Church of Christ, 216-736-2177; 216-403-9862 or newsroom@ucc.org

CLEVELAND, Oct. 5 /U.S. Newswire/ -- The leader of the 1.2- million-member United Church of Christ is condemning remarks by Tony Perkins, president of the right-wing Family Research Council, who is using the Mark Foley congressional scandal to scapegoat the larger gay and lesbian community.

"Perkins recent remarks are destructive to gay and lesbian persons and their families and distract the nation's attention from the real issue at hand, which is protecting young people from sexual predators," said the Rev. John H. Thomas, the UCC's general minister and president.

On October 2, Perkins issued a statement claiming "the real issue" in the Foley scandal was a "link between homosexuality and child sexual abuse." On Oct. 3, Perkins made similar accusations on MSNBC's "Hardball with Chris Matthews," where he likened homosexuals with "sexual deviants."

Thomas said the former congressman's sexual orientation should not be part of the public debate. The American Psychological Association, in addition to numerous other reputable medical and scientific groups, has found that "gay men are no more likely than heterosexual men to perpetrate child sexual abuse."

"To suggest that gay and lesbian persons should be barred from public service, as Perkins has implied, is akin to suggesting that white, straight males should be kept out of politics because of Bill Clinton's sexual misdeeds," Thomas said. "To attach this debate to sexual orientation is not only ludicrous, it's dangerous. Many gay and lesbian persons serve honorably in public office."

"If anything, this nation's culture of silence with respect to gay and lesbian people has taught us that hiding, shame and denial, as in Foley's case, are not healthy ways to live as a gay or lesbian person - not for them as individuals and not for us as a society," Thomas said.

Thomas also called for a full investigation into the unfolding scandal, saying the nation deserves to know if congressional leaders attempted to cover up for the sake of preserving political power.

"As we say in the church, those who care for young people must be committed to creating an 'envelope of safety,' where the systems of care include levels of accountability and oversight," Thomas said. "There must be a full investigation by the Congress, not only into Mark Foley but how the leadership handled reports of his behavior."

Thomas said the church's support of the gay and lesbian community is in keeping with its concern for the safety and well- being of young people.

"In the United Church of Christ, we have encountered this nation's culture of silence and shame with a distinctive Christian message about the need for "extravagant welcome," Thomas said. "And with that message of 'extravagant welcome' comes an attentiveness to the safety and security of children."

The Rev. Robert Chase, executive director of the UCC's Office of Communication, Inc., the church's historic media watchdog group, said the mainstream media should also be scrutinized for how it is reporting on the scandal.

"One of the tragic elements in the recent incident involving Mark Foley is the way the media give credence to those who make the unfortunate, salacious and inaccurate leap that Mr. Foley's behavior is rooted in his sexual orientation." Chase said. "Such characterization slanders an entire group of citizens and fuels the forces of suspicion and division that plague our country."

The United Church of Christ, formed in 1957 with the union of the Congregational Christian Church in American and the Evangelical and Reformed Church, has more than 5,600 congregations across the United States. The UCC's national offices are in Cleveland, Ohio.

http://www.usnewswire.com/

-0-

/© 2006 U.S. Newswire 202-347-2770/

Piety and Politics

Piety & Politics The Right-Wing Assault on Religious Freedom

Read the latest book by one of our favorite authors, our own
Rev. Barry W. Lynn.

Piety & Politics is available at book stores, or save more than 30% off the regular price when you order from Amazon.com.

What people are saying about Piety & Politics:

“The rise of the Religious Right as a political force has placed the separation of church and state at grave risk. Perhaps never before in American history has a liberty so important been so imperiled. Piety & Politics offers a compelling analysis of both the gravity of the danger and the hypocrisy behind it that fanaticism is being practiced by the very people whose faith counsels tolerance. The Reverend Barry Lynn is a shining example of what it truly means to be an American of faith.”
-- Kate Michelman, former president, NARAL Pro-Choice America

“Piety & Politics summons the silent among us to rise up and, with a firm voice, support the constitutional separation of church and state. Barry Lynn reminds us that our own one-of-a-kind founding document is a powerful stiff arm against the tyranny of the righteous, the “called,” who insist on writing your child’s biology textbooks, public funding of private schools, placing Jesus on the wall of public buildings, condemning homosexuals, disallowing choice in family planning, and working every day to reestablish America as a nation of one faith, theirs.”
-- Phil Donahue

Looking for something fun to do this weekend? Pick up a copy of Piety & Politics and discover again why we are all working so hard to safeguard separation of church and state.

Boycott the Salvation Army

If you havent read Michelle Goldberg's book yet, buy it! It is full of amazing and scary stories like the one below. I will never toss another penny into the Salvation Army bucket. Considering how often these cry baby "Christian" nutbags say they are a persecuted people, they sure are doing well lately with George Bush....who has handed them the farm and still not satisfied them. Tragic. Scary. Unchristian. Unconscionable. Turns many of us Christians off --take your religion back from the fanatics like Rick Scarborough and Vision America. Enough is Enough

Some of the resulting collateral damage has been tragic. Just talk to Anne Lown. She worked for 24 years for the Salvation Army in New York City before resigning due to the hostility she felt toward her non-Christian beliefs. The office she ran had hundreds of employees with an annual budget of $50-million, almost all of which came from public sources. Lown oversaw foster care placements, day care services, residential services for the developmentally disabled and many other programs.

In Lown’s experience, the Salvation Army had always in the past been meticulous about keeping its evangelical side from mingling with its provision of social services, but all that changed in 2003. She attributes the change directly to Bush’s policies. A lawsuit filed by Lown and another 17 current and former employees of the Salvation Army alleges that religion suddenly pervaded the agency’s personnel decisions.

Lown says she was handed a form that all employees were expected to complete, asking for a list of churches she attended over the last 10 years and the name of her present minister. Lown says she was told that indicating “not applicable” was not an option. A lawyer for the Salvation Army says the form was modified after complaints were received.

But Lown said that atmosphere was fear-inducing for the professional staff.

She pointed to a mission statement that all employees were required to support as a condition of employment. It stated that the organization’s mission “is to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ.”

Margaret Geissman, who is also part of the lawsuit, claims that she was asked by a supervisor to point out gay and non-Christian employees, with the overt suggestion that there would eventually be a purge of sorts. The Salvation Army denies this.

Despite the Salvation Army’s disclaimers, Goldberg cites an internal Salvation Army document describing a deal struck in 2001 with the White House. In exchange for the administration passing regulations protecting faith-based groups from state and local antidiscrimination regulations relative to gays, the Salvation Army agreed to promote the administration’s faith-based agenda.

Forget the proverbial wall. Here it is, church and state working hand-in-glove, with tax money and the government-sanctioned intolerance as the prize.

Meanwhile, money is flowing into religious coffers without anyone watching. A June report from the Government Accountability Office found that few government agencies that award grants to faith-based organizations bother to monitor whether the recipient is improperly mixing religion into their programs or discriminating against clients on the basis of religion. A few organizations contacted by the GAO even admitted to praying with clients while providing government-funded services. As to kicking out non-Christians on the staff, the Bush Justice Department says that it is perfectly okay.

Just another example of how, under this president, I hardly recognize my country anymore.

Jesus, Enemy Combatant

Excellent op ed by Anthony Wade with mention to Rev. Rick Scarborough of Vision America. Click link to go view full article.

October 2, 2006 at 13:11:57

Jesus, Enemy Combatant. When the Christian Right Becomes the Christian Wrong

by Anthony Wade

full op ed: http://www.opednews.com

We are now just weeks away from the most important election of our lifetimes as Americans, and as Christians. Faced with sagging poll numbers and general unrest within the citizenry, the Republican Party is ratcheting up their usual trump cards, fear, loathing and divisiveness. The calls for fear are coming nearly every day, with new al Qaeda videos being released, designed to scare you to vote GOP. The loathing is also being driven home daily with the calls from GOP leaders to compare anything democrat with terrorism enablers and insisting they have "no plan" even though there own plan amounts to nothing more than rubber stamping an out of control executive branch and removing all checks and balances from our system of government. The divisiveness however is occurring at many levels, as the GOP seeks to divide America into halves; us versus them, liberals versus conservatives, republicans versus democrats, patriots versus cut and runners, and most offensively; Christians versus heathens.

Log Cabin on Foley

Shameful, hateful, unchristian [rick scarborough vision america]

News Release
For Immediate Release


October 4, 2006


Log Cabin Republicans Respond to Shameful Tactics of Anti-Gay Groups
(Washington, DC) – “Anti-gay groups should stop using the Mark Foley scandal to push their anti-gay agenda,” said Log Cabin Executive Vice President Patrick Sammon. “This is a political scandal and a personal scandal, but it should not be used to denigrate gay and lesbian Americans. The anti-gay groups appear more interested in using this situation to score political points than in figuring out exactly what happened in this terrible situation.”

“Millions of gay and lesbian people go to work, pay taxes, raise families, and make this country a better place to live. Their lives and character shouldn’t be demeaned because of Mark Foley’s disgusting behavior or the Congressional leadership’s response to it,” Sammon said.



Family Research Council President Tony Perkins, Paul Weyrich from the Free Congress Foundation, “American Values” President Gary Bauer, and Pat Buchanan, among others, have been using this situation to push their anti-gay agenda. Tony Perkins said on “Hardball with Chris Matthews” that gay men are more likely than heterosexual men to molest young people. Also, Pat Buchanan made an identical claim on the same program. These claims are categorically false. In fact, in 1998 the Journal of the American Medical Association found that 98 percent of male pedophiles are heterosexual.



“These people should spend more much time holding our elected officials accountable for their behavior and less time scapegoating gay Americans,” said Sammon.

###

Log Cabin Republicans is the nation's largest organization of Republicans who support fairness, freedom, and equality for gay and lesbian Americans. Log Cabin has state and local chapters nationwide, full-time offices in Washington, DC and Sacramento, CA, and a federal political action committee. www.logcabin.org

Is Rick Scarborough a Moonie?

So if Rev. Falwell is being financed by cult leader Sun Myung Moon and Falwell's people are funding Lufkin, Texas based Vision America run by [dr][rev]Rick Scarborough -- is Vision America being financed by a cult? Just wondering. Since Vision America doesnt seem to belong to any of the religious oriented non profit financial watchdog groups (none of them!) - you have to wonder where the HELL is all that money coming from? How much money is coming from Rev. Moon? Maybe Moon owns the Washington Times and Vision America? Yikes. Yikes Yikes.

Don't forget that foot in mouth syndrome poster fatcat Jerry Falwell was the guy pushing to have Moon's US Tax Evasion conviction pardoned in the 1990's.

And don't forget what a loony this moon(Y) man is! Great information from
http://www.rotten.com here:

It should be obvious to sensible persons that whatever fraction of Sun Myung Moon which isn't pure bullshit artist is necessarily raving lunatic. As the wacko billionaire who made his fortune off the backs of the Moonie cult (otherwise known as the Unification Church), Moon has established his niche in the world as the Korean version of L. Ron Hubbard.
Over the years, Moon's gargantuan wealth and legions of worshippers have evidently corroded away any sense of propriety or self-restraint he might have once possessed, leaving only a megalomaniac and his vast financial and human resources.

As evidence, consider the day in April 2002 when he received the latest in a long series of earthshattering religious visions. This one was especially noteworthy. In it, Moon learned that he had been selected as "the Savior, Messiah and King of Kings of all of humanity" by God. Also on the selection committee: Jesus Christ, Mohammed, and Buddha (in addition to several others, including the godless Communists Marx and Stalin for some mysterious reason).

Anyway, that's how Moon described it in his full-page newspaper ad, which ran in papers all across the U.S. (including the Los Angeles Times). It was a $720,000 print run, but it was worth every penny. Finally middle America would get the word and rally behind their messiah. Except it was a bit of a reach. Moon's captive congregation is accustomed to his indefatigable hubris, but the general public who have yet to send their mind through the laundry just find it repugnant.

But he can't help it. Moon has been claiming for decades (like The Beatles before him) that he is bigger than Christ. In a 1990 sermon, he reiterated this belief (note that Moon always addresses himself in the third person, usually as "Father"):


"Jesus never achieved a thousandth of what Father has done. In his two years and eight months of public ministry, [Jesus] didn't even establish the national foundation. Now, Father has established a foundation of worldwide power that is unprecedented in history."
Moon has a bad habit of comparing himself favorably to his predecessor, proclaiming that he will succeed where Jesus has failed, and so on. This kind of material kills with the home crowd, but it doesn't really do so great on the road. But apparently this is irrelevant, since Moon seems to have become utterly oblivious to the shocked reactions of his public audiences.
Case in point: an April 2001 appearance at a Methodist church in Las Vegas. It was just another typical sermon by Reverend Moon. There were about 600 people in the congregation when the sermon began. But for some reason, people kept walking out, well before he got on a roll about schlongs:


"The head of the love organ is shaped exactly like a poisonous rattlesnake. And just like a rattlesnake, it's always looking for a hole."
Oh yes, there was more. He went on to explain that 70% of all divorces result from the wife's inappropriate feelings of entitlement toward her husband's genitals. As Moon explained it, a man's "love organ" can only serve its master, and the spouse just needs to get used to it. He told the audience that these women, along with childless couples and homosexuals, are destroying the fabric of society. Offended churchgoers left in droves; some of them even heckled him on their way out. And this was by no means an isolated incident. He's been spouting that snake-genitalia lunacy for years and years. In April 1996, Moon preached:


"The Bible refers to the origin of free sex by using the image of a snake. Woman's sexual organ is like the open mouth of a snake filled with poison. Man's sexual organ is like the head of a snake. If you think of fallen love action in these terms you feel disgusted and so you should. It is poison to humanity."
In November of that same year, he was in Buenos Aires to celebrate the launch of his newest Spanish-language newspaper. At the ceremony (attended by guest speaker and former President George HW Bush for a reported fee of $100,000), Moon passed along this revolutionary insight:


"You use the bathroom each morning. When you defecate, do you wear a gas mask? This is not a laughing matter but a serious one. If you are near someone else defecating, you will quickly move a good distance away. But when you smell your own feces, you do not even notice it. This is because that fecal matter is one with your body. Therefore, you do not feel that it is dirty.

"When you were young, did you ever taste the dried mucus from your nose? Does it taste sweet or salty? It's salty, right? Since you can answer, you must have tasted it! Why did you not feel that it was dirty? It is because it was part of your body.

"Reverend Moon has figured out something that no one in the world knew."

Why would anybody (who isn't brainwashed or getting paid) sit through an entire speech by this screwball? Ever since 1954, Moon has made no secret of his nutball theology:

Eve bumped uglies with Satan and thereby consigned humanity to the Kingdom of Hell.
Jesus ruined his chance to purify mankind when he neglected to get married and father children.
Sun Myung Moon is succeeding where Jesus failed.
Worshipping Moon is now mankind's last chance for redemption.
Being the world's savior, Moon preaches that no one can enter Heaven without his explicit blessing. But he is only willing to bless married couples. Which is where those Guinness Book mass weddings come in.
In a Moonie marriage, the choice of a partner is handled for you. Church elders make the seemingly-random selections by pairing up photos of prospective brides and grooms. Maybe they shuffle Polaroids like a deck of cards. Sometimes the lucky couples wind up with a common spoken language. Sometimes not.

They meet for the first time during the week leading up to the wedding day, often on the day of the ceremony itself. The event is so big that it has to be held in a sports arena or stadium, complete with a closed-circuit video feed on the Jumbotron.

Because of these antics and his blasphemous theology, you might expect that Moon would be shunned by respected Christian leaders. Which he is. For instance, Jerry Falwell told Esquire magazine in 1978: "Reverend Sun Myung Moon is like the plague: he exploits boys and girls, and he should be exported. [sic]"

This negative general attitude poses a significant problem for the Unification Church. Its goal is the absorption of every national government and competing religious faith. Which is a tall order, considering the horrible reputation the church has earned over the years. But Moon is nothing if not determined.


"The democratic world has hated Reverend Moon until now, but from now on it will like the Reverend Moon. The time has already come when America will start to like Reverend Moon."
Moon's chosen tactic, which has been highly effective, is to purchase his legitimacy outright. In addition to United Press International (UPI), Moon is the owner of the Washington Times, a conservative newspaper devoted to right-wing causes. Every operating year, the Times loses tens of millions of dollars, but profitability has never been a priority. Its intended purpose was made clear when, during Watergate, the paper ran an endless stream of pro-Nixon editorials urging the American people to forgive and forget.

Ever since then, Moon has made substantial inroads to the Republican party by parlaying access to his media outlets and exorbitant cash contributions. For instance, it was $100,000 of Moon's money that initially kicked off the Nicaraguan Freedom Fund, a nonprofit organization conceived by Oliver North and headed by a group of conservatives including Charlton Heston. The NFF's mission in life was to raise private donations for the Contras, in the eventuality that Congress cut off funding. Also recall that former President George HW Bush was paid six figures to attend a 1996 ceremony in Buenos Aires. At the podium, Bush gushed:


"I want to salute Reverend Moon, who is the founder of the Washington Times, and of the new paper here."
Not to mention mainstream church leaders, like our old friend Jerry Falwell. The man who called for Moon's "exportation" in 1978 was singing his praises years later. Falwell changed his tune after one of Moon's front organizations handed Liberty University $3.5 million and otherwise forgave tens of millions in debts so he could bail out his college in 1994. Later, Falwell reciprocated by appearing at various Unification Church events and called upon President Ronald Reagan to pardon Moon's felony conviction for tax evasion.

Oh, that. Well, it turns out that the messiah didn't want to pay his taxes. So he underreported his income by omitting $162,000 and hoped that either the Internal Revenue Service wouldn't notice, or his high-placed friends in the government would squelch any investigation. But the IRS did, and his friends didn't. Moon was convicted in 1982. He fought his conviction all the way to the Supreme Court and lost, after which he announced that God evidently wanted him to go to prison. In 1984 he finally submitted to God's will and spent the next 13 months in the clink.

It's all part of the divine plan. As Moon himself might say: You just gotta trust Father on this one.

Rev. Rick Scarborough re: IRS

Go ahead Rev. Rick Scarborough and Vision America -- tell those "patriot pastors" to go ahead and challenge the IRS, go right ahead and bark all you want. If these "patriots" are true "patriots" --they won't mind writing a check to the IRS as do most other "businesses" in the United States. Maybe it is time to tax the megachurches anyway -- it's not like the Country and/or local counties couldnt use some help filling the potholes created by your congregations.

In its “Tax Guide for Churches and Religious Organizations” the IRS clearly states

Under the Internal Revenue Code, all IRC section 501(c)(3) organizations, including churches and religious organizations, are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office. Contributions to political campaign funds or public statements of position (verbal or written) made by or on behalf of the organization in favor of or in opposition to any candidate for public office clearly violate the prohibition against political campaign activity. Violation of this prohibition may result in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise tax.

…

[F]or their organizations to remain tax exempt under IRC section 501(c)(3), religious leaders cannot make partisan comments in official organization publications or at official church functions.

The IRS even offers this example of prohibited political activity and it sounds exactly like the sort of activity Staver is advocating


Example 4: Minister D is the minister of Church M. During regular services of Church M shortly before the election, Minister D preached on a number of issues, including the importance of voting in the upcoming election, and concludes by stating, “It is important that you all do your duty in the election and vote for Candidate W.” Since Minister D’s remarks indicating support for Candidate W were made during an official church service, they constitute political campaign intervention attributable to Church M.

I 'll Bid a Dime!

Suggestion: Buy a Book, Read it, then toss it your fireplace this winter.

Book: Enough is Enough by Jerry Falwell, Jr aka Rick Scarborough

Current Cost on Amazon : 0.25 cents
Current Value: ZERO

Synopis: Unsigned copy of Gospel of Hate's [so called] "Christian" Texas Baptist megachurch reverened leader turned jetset politico with $100,000 plus salary from his Liberty, Texas based "Vision America." Book was distributed free to all Southern Baptist ministers a few years ago before they voted not to elect this clown to a leadership position. Reportedly funding for Vision America comes from extremist right wingers like Falwell, cult leader Rev. Moon and friends. Book is full of fabricated lies about gay and lesbian people, false Visions for America, and the separation of church and state.

Buyer Strategies 1. Wait til the book drops to a dime 2. Spend a quarter and buy now and read why it is important to say no to the hate speech of the extreme religious right 3. Email the Amazon seller and bid a penny 4.Mail a copy to RS's blow buddy Tom Delay and his thief wife Ms. Tom Delay at their new mansion in Virgina.

Expose the Gospel of Hate of Rev. Rick Scarborough and Vision America.

Leonard Pitts on Biblical Literalism

Biblical Literalists need to shit, get off the fence, or just shut
up. Leonard Pitts is almost always just right on. Here is a good one:

Full Article

Literalism blocks Bible's big pictureBy LEONARD PITTS JR.
lpitts@MiamiHerald.com
First Baptist Church of Watertown, N.Y., fired Mary Lambert for being a woman. They say the Bible told them to do it.

Nothing against women, says the Rev. Timothy LaBouf. The church is just trying to obey 1 Timothy 2:11-14, which says, in part, ``A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.''

So, after 54 years as a Sunday school teacher at First Baptist, Lambert was given the heave-ho a couple weeks ago. She and others have said the firing probably had as much to do with church politics as with scriptural injunctions, but let's stick with the stated reason as given in her letter of dismissal: The Bible forbids women taking positions of authority. There is, for the record, a similar injunction in 1 Corinthians 14:34-35, which warns that it is ''disgraceful'' for a woman to speak in the church.

So the church is scripturally right. It's just not right right.